Seeds of Discontent, episode 5 (subculture of poverty, welfare system)

Seeds of Discontent, episode 5 (subculture of poverty, welfare system)

Seeds of Discontent was a 1968 radio documentary series that explored discontented social groups and organizations attempting to improve their conditions in American society. Created by Hartford Smith, Jr. and Wayne State University’s WDET in Detroit, the series addressed topics including race relations, civil rights, poverty, youth, and crime.

This episode, the last of three exploring the subculture of poverty in United States, focuses on the welfare system.

Hartford Smith, Jr.

Originally distributed by WDET in Detroit, Michigan; made available in digitally archived format as part of the Unlocking the Airwaves project, a digital humanities initiative from University of Maryland and the University of Wisconsin-Madison launched in 2021.

1968

English

Sound

Speaker 0 00:00:02 This is the fifth in a series of programs entitled Seeds of Discontent. Here to present the program is Hartford Smith, junior supervisor of the screening and intake unit maintained by the Michigan department of social services, delinquency rehabilitation programs, Mr. Smith. Speaker 1 00:00:20 Thank you. Tonight, we continue our examination of the plight of poor people. During the past two weeks, we have by means of interviews with the poor listened to some of the ways in which our society has failed in providing systems to meet needs and the basic areas of food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and recreation. These again are basics. If a man, woman or child is to survive and grow and to his fullest potential, and today's complex world interviews have revealed that the poor have to pay more for these basics, even though they have less to spend and consume and suffer considerable degradation in the process and areas such as recreation. The NAIT is many times totally unmet aside from looking at these basic survival areas. We have listened to some of the ways in which these problems affect various ethnic and minority groups. So far, our presentations have reflected the plight of the poor Negro living in urban areas. Speaker 1 00:01:24 And to an extent, the displaced low income Southern white, it is not chance or accident that the severity of the problem of poverty and the problem of meeting human needs can be measured in terms of one's ethnic affiliation. It is this disparity between the poverty level of various groups, as opposed to poverty, per se, that adds fuel to the fires of discontent and rebellion until these problems are resolved. This country shall continue to labor under the violent consequences of racism and social disorder. It was for this reason that part of our intent and planning for tonight's program was to hear from another ethnic group who has suffered an abnormal degree of deprivation and these basic areas from various studies and community contexts, it seemed evident that Mexican Americans and other Latin Americans had had considerable difficulty, certainly the plate of the migrant farm worker of Mexican origin, who moves about the countryside living in tents and the Puerto Rican walled in, by the concrete and human walls of the ghetto could provide insights into the meaning and feelings of being uprooted with a large family and little money. Speaker 1 00:02:41 Regrettably, this was not the case. We have talked to many Mexican American families, but to no avail, most teams are afraid of talking publicly about the problems they have faced and their feelings about it from our unrecorded talks. However, it does appear that their experiences of having worked in the fields of Texas, California, and Michigan at low wages and under deplorable living condition goes to the very heart of the current level of discontent. That is feelings of being used and abused lines of communications have been established. However, and somewhere in our series, we hope to get their story recorded in their own words as a result. However, our voices on tonight's show will deal exclusively with the poor and their perceptions of the welfare system. Welfare can be looked at as the standard of care, which a given country tries to guarantee each citizen so that he is not stifled art starved as a result of forces beyond his control. Speaker 1 00:03:47 If a large company goes out of business or international trade conditions change, or there is a crippling illness, this is something which goes beyond the capacity of the individual citizen to do something about the same is true of a well-intentioned mother who someday wakes up to find herself without a mate or breadwinner. There radically, at least welfare is designed to help those without, to someday find their way back into the system of earning a living in order to do this. However, the welfare system itself must provide these basic survival needs in a fashion that will motivate and assist in the continued growth and development of the family and the individual in spite of widespread suffering and depression during the latter part of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th welfare did not become a part of the established national policy of this country until the late thirties. This in itself seems to suggest some of the values that we have regarding human problems. Let's however, listen to some of the contemporary experiences, comments, and perceptions of those now on various welfare systems, do you find that your, your budget, um, on ADC is fairly adequate? Are there some special problems here that you might want to discuss with us? Speaker 2 00:05:12 Uh, it is not adequate. It never has been adequate. And to take housing, uh, as a first example, um, adequate housing and housing that you would not be ashamed to have people see, uh, would cost a lot more than ADC grants for rent. Plus you would have to pay your own utilities. So this lets out any hopes of having a nice place to live. Uh, the second item might be clothing. There are no clothing orders for ABC children. There isn't anything for the mother. So if a mother wanted to go out and work, she couldn't anyway, because she wouldn't have anything to put on her back. I mean, Speaker 3 00:05:57 Looking back at everything since you've been on ADC, what could you say in a few words, would that would best describe your feelings about this? Your income is about what Speaker 4 00:06:18 About 1 98 per month, which is, uh, adequate. I mean, it's not enough for the three of us Speaker 3 00:06:26 And that's by way of social security, Speaker 4 00:06:29 Right? That's correct. That's, that's where it comes from. Speaker 3 00:06:33 Um, this is, uh, under the disability clause, right? Speaker 4 00:06:38 It is, uh, . I mean, I've been, um, I have been, uh, in, in a wheelchair now for about, uh, going on 12 years. I see. And, uh, it's kinda hard and lots of times, I mean, um, to, you know what I mean, make it, but I try, I don't do the best I can. Speaker 3 00:07:01 I see a lot of the time, 190 a month, or so you have to pay how much in the way of rent. Speaker 4 00:07:08 The rent is $50 per month. Uh, that's rent and then the rest of it, I mean, it comes under food, clothing and transportation, so forth, which do I do the best I can by that, managing that, Speaker 3 00:07:26 What utilities do you have to pay out of that? Speaker 4 00:07:28 I have to pay my lights out of, uh, that also varies from time to time. Speaker 3 00:07:38 What about gas? Speaker 4 00:07:40 Well, gas, uh, I don't have any, any, uh, gas at, at the present time. There's, there's a program. Um, Tampa, I think it is trying to help me to get that on. Speaker 3 00:07:55 But as of this point, then you don't really have a gas. How do you heat your dwelling? Speaker 4 00:08:02 Uh, I hate my on dwelling, but by electric heater, mostly the fan wall, plug heater, something like that Speaker 3 00:08:12 I say. And you have, um, two kids and yourself to take care of it. That's Speaker 4 00:08:17 Correct. That's correct. Speaker 3 00:08:21 Uh, out of this amount now I understand you were trying to get some other kind of aid and you had applied for some other source of income. Speaker 4 00:08:29 Uh, yes, I was told, uh, once to go to social service and social service said that they couldn't do anything because, uh, all that they could give me was a hundred and ninety four, a hundred and fifty $4 per month. And, uh, said that that was, I was getting more than they could give me. So I didn't get any help from, Speaker 3 00:08:55 I gathered that you have to take care of your, your two sons, the three of you have to work things out on your own pretty much, uh, as anyone ever tried to supply you with any kind of, uh, homemaker service, anyone to assist you in this area? Speaker 4 00:09:11 Uh, well, homemaker service. Uh, no, but, um, uh, let's uh, should I say, well, tap all the mayor's committee on the total election or whatever you call it. I mean, uh, they, they have been assisting me, uh, uh, pretty fair on those grounds here of late because, uh, it was, uh, doing, doing the, the city disturbance, uh, that I, I went by there and they, uh, they gave me some assistance and I thought that, that, uh, they had forgotten about the whole thing. So one day, I mean, they came out and looked the situation over and, uh, saw what I needed and saw that I needed needed help. And so they, they're the only ones that tried to help. Speaker 3 00:10:10 I can understand that you've had a lot of difficulty finding a place to live in the city. Would you just want to tell us a little bit more about this? Speaker 5 00:10:21 Yes. Well, um, yes, like I say, inside of six years, I'll move about four temps. Every time you find someplace to stay, you got a lot of kids, you just got to take the worst. It it is. And the main thing is, uh, I live one place and the people were so nice to me and they didn't want me to move, but they, they seem insistent the house. Wasn't up to date. I had to move and I wasn't out of that house three weeks before not lady see family, I had moved in the same house and they still hadn't fixed it up, but just see all it, they just tell you gotta get out, you know? And then they don't see up till the tenants facing before they written it again. And you just move on to the other place and it's not fit the next place. The wine's bad, bad supposed to fix. He never fixed it. He never fixed it where, but they said you got to move or here, this house has got to be closed now. And the real, I will not have that in four days. We'll know the family moved in and it's still living in, but I got a move. I mean, this is no good the west, but like catch up with the kids. So this housing problem, he moved from one bomb to none. And it's really ridiculous. Speaker 3 00:11:37 How much would you estimate? You have to pay him a month for this kind of housing and you found, Speaker 5 00:11:44 But $65 and $75. That's what the wrong. And there's so many things that need to be done. You can't even go on to maintenance. I think Speaker 6 00:11:54 The welfare people should have all these people to fix up these houses, plumbing, Y and everything. Even the walls, the steps, the porch is the bitch. Uh, the, the fences and everything. They don't have any of this and even good garbage cans. They don't even have, we have to buy my own sometimes. I mean, you just get fed up and you just do a little place up. Speaker 5 00:12:18 Well, it just makes you feel this low and sick and disgusting. And especially when you have a lot of kids, as you have to take so much to try to get them wrong on their own. And, uh, it just discussion just really discussion when you gotta go through and take these things. It's just disgusting. It hurts. You sometimes make you feel like this walking on way and just keep on walking. You know? So it says, uh, my husband, you know, they, uh, didn't know where he were. So, uh, they wanted me to come down twice a month and sit on the banks is downtown to, uh, get the sand paper against him. And this guy is so disgusting. I'm sending the kids to school and I'm back to sit there at least at one o'clock twice the month on those plans is to sign this paper here. Speaker 5 00:13:14 So one morning it just got all over me. And I asked the lady why? I said, well, I tell you what I have had all I can take. And I can't take no more has this. Now you can go out and get him. I, you know, where he worked or whatever you want to do. Either you can come to the house and get the babies because I won't be down no more. She said, well, if you don't calm down, you won't get no help. So I bought, I don't get no help. Y'all will have to come get the kids because I won't be done. Leslie, this is unnecessarily. I'm there washing the ant and keeping those kids clean to go to school everyday. Are they alive? Two of them, I mostly had to be at the hospital with he's walking the street and I got to go down and sit and almost against something that's not fat. When you know where a man is, you know where he works. That's not fair. I had the babies, we in the home, they put him out the home. I did, they knew the situation till they come and told him to move, get out. They put him out the home, he just got. So he would take the money and throw it away after he wasn't work. And it kept going until they had to put him out the home, not wise, I got to go sit to get some help for the two. This doesn't make sense. Speaker 6 00:14:37 And they already know the situation. As far as I can see it. These people are, even though they're saying I ain't helping you. Uh, even though they are saying, it's, they're still hurting you. And they'll still make, instead of trying to bring you up, they try to keep down at that place where they can have someone to look on and pick at you sick. In other words, they're not trying to help the situation. They're trying to more or less, keep it where it is when you have all these people like this. And look at you like this. Like, um, and I talked to my worker and she told me, she said, so, well, we give you $19. And, um, you give your mother $15 for living in a house with her. And she said, and you keep $36 of your money. I told her, no, I, I told her exactly. Don't tell me, you're letting me keep, you know, $36. I make it. You tell me that you giving me $19, add on to it, to help me to get somewhere, but don't tell me, you're letting me keeping my money. Cause that's my money. And this is what I had to tell her. And she said, well, I'm sorry. I said, well, that's okay, but I just want to let you know where I stand. Okay. Speaker 1 00:15:54 At this point, certain key words and phrases such as they, and these people should be carefully analyzed. They are significant statements, which suggests that the recipient can not identify with the system and indeed feels alienated by it. Motivation comes about best under optimum conditions of sensitive human interaction. How can motivation occur? However, it wasn't feels alienated and powerless to do anything in face of a generalized ungiving arbitrary, inhumane force. Let's continue. However, and look at the recipient's perception of welfare, as it regards other vital social areas, Speaker 3 00:16:36 There has been some comment made about, uh, certainly in the investigation procedures or various welfare agencies, um, on especially, uh, ATC. Um, do you feel, um, that, uh, you're having a difficulty, uh, dating or finding a new mate you the same as any other, uh, uh, single, uh, woman, um, or do you feel that, um, things are made more difficult for you? Just what are your feelings about this? Speaker 2 00:17:09 Well, I think it makes it more difficult because the workers, uh, they constantly have to know what you're doing. It's almost like being married and being unfaithful. And if you do have a male companion coming to the home, then it's a, every neighbor's business and it makes they make it your workers business. And before, you know what the gentlemen who you are seeing just doesn't want to be caught up in such a hassle. And he has to go down and declare who he is. And so you just sort of give up hope. You just don't just don't bother anymore or sneak off or something. Speaker 3 00:17:45 So then while you're on ATC, um, and if you really want to think in terms of remarriage, uh, it's going to be a very difficult situation then all the way up behind. In other words, they don't seem to be very supportive of the idea of marriage. Speaker 2 00:18:02 Well, they liked the idea of marriage, but they don't go for any of the premarital, um, pleasures. Speaker 3 00:18:09 What other kinds of special problems have you had, Speaker 2 00:18:14 But you can't, uh, you can't feel like a free individual. You have to feel constantly as though you're being watched. You're being watched by your neighbors. You're being watched by your work or you're being watched by their supervisors. You're being watched by everybody to make sure you don't do the wrong thing Speaker 3 00:18:29 Based on your contacts with other welfare mothers. Uh, can you just give us some insights, some information about some of the problems, uh, uh, that their kids may face in terms of getting into school and continuing in school? Speaker 2 00:18:45 Yes, most of the children, uh, do not have an adequate wardrobe and therefore feel very slighted. They will tend to become more and more withdrawn. And in time, as soon as the child is old enough to quit school will quit school, uh, some perhaps to, uh, to seek employment so that they can get the money they've been deprived of, uh, others to go out into the streets and pursue a life of crime in order to get the things that they were denied because their mothers were on welfare or ADC. Speaker 3 00:19:19 No, these youngsters and sometimes parents who decide to go to various programs to seek aid in the way of work, uh self-help projects, if you will. Um, how do you, how do you feel, uh, the people who are we're staffing, these programs who are in charge of these programs who meet with, uh, applicants on a day to day basis? How, what do you feel are the reactions, uh, uh, to people who, who, who are seeking help? Speaker 2 00:19:55 Okay. I'd say out of, let's say, let's say 75% of welfare and ATC mothers or drop outs who go to any of the employment agencies to seek employment. I'd say only 15% of them will go back again and try to make their own lives. Why is that? This is because most people have lived on aid are stereotyped. Uh, the people think of them as a lower class of human being. They think of them as, uh, scroungers and, uh, leeches and, uh, just anything but a human being. And in their work, they show this, they show the prejudice and they show the, uh, inconsideration for these people. And so therefore many people will just go back onto welfare ATC, and just say the heck with a job, Discouraged defensive and just don't care anymore. The job training programs that are offered to the welfare and ADC mothers are not adequate. Uh, you are trained, but you're not trained to go out and work on the job. Uh, the training is perhaps just the very basics. Then you go to the job and find that you, uh, you're maybe six to nine months behind in what they are doing so that your training is just down the drain. You can't even get a job, but with that kind of training, Speaker 1 00:21:30 It is impossible to answer attain whether or not all allegations of unreasonableness and justice are true or untrue and any absolute and final sense. Sometimes the whole matter may rest on the attitude of the welfare worker servicing the case. Most studies conducted in recent years would however, tend to back up what the voices on tonight's program have said in any event, what is important, however, is the recipient's view and perception of welfare, how he perceives the welfare system is his reality. And it is on the basis of this reality that he will act or not act his feelings about what he perceives. As reality provides the basis for his social interaction with others. There were some positive statements made about welfare and other programs designed to help the poor, which may give some clues as to how real motivation and greater self-help may eventually be produced. What are some of the things that you'd like to see continued? What are some of the things that you'd like to see Don? What do you think w what would help you? Speaker 5 00:22:44 Well, they have been doing some good things that I think this program they have, for sure. I think it's just wonderful kids come out the street and they can work and learn that they have responsibility and, uh, make a little money to buy the clothes so they can go decent and everything. I think this is wonderful. Also the medical, cause I think this is good because, uh, I used to have to sit and receive it all day and maybe it'd be three or four o'clock though to get through. And then I would have to sit downstairs to five o'clock to get the medicine. And now when you take the kids to the doctor, if you do get asleep, well, you can go to most of the energy drugs stove and carry your Cod and get your medicine for your children. Otherwise you can bring your children on home and you can go back that way. Speaker 5 00:23:33 The kids won't be tied out. So I'm just laying on banks and things all day long. And I think this is a wonderful thing. And the next most wonderful thing is they are saying that they're going to laugh the ADE peoples to violent homes on the optician, a back program. But I think the work or something, she'll let the ADC people know this because they say that they have the same payments that they have where they're paying rent. So why not let them know that they can do these things and maybe they can help the cell by getting out, trying to find some of these little homes as fitting a little bit, try and bomb. And I, and I think that would be, that's a wonderful thing. All, if they, this, let the people know that they can't do this, Speaker 3 00:24:23 Do you feel that people in had some place that they could really call their own, that would make things much Speaker 5 00:24:32 And make you feel more like trying to keep it up and everything because you see the poor people. Now it's still trying to get ahead. And we're all still struggling. A lot of peoples just because they only see, you know, they're struggling. Cause I'm doing all I can with my kids and all of they get the more, they getting jobs and good jobs and everything. And I'm going to just to continue to clean up until the last one is growing up just because they had to be raised on this way. I want them to come on out and be somebody. And they're doing fine. One of them, Speaker 6 00:25:07 The poverty program that they have now, but all the young kids, the teenagers that's on the program, this is very good. This is like, this is like fixing up something new before fixing up the, oh, before it tears down again, the kid's side, learning how to go out, get a job. They know what to do, what not to do. They know how to stand on their two feet to know how to speak up and say what they want to say. Now they won't be put in the same place their parents was put in because they know they got a chance and the people I give them them a chance. And this is very good. It is all so good. Speaker 1 00:25:49 Unknown to the recipients who made the last positive statements. However, is the term oral currently present in Congress regarding poverty and welfare funds. If a reactionary, Congress has its way, things will become more tragic and stifling. Through the years. Since 1930, we have seen the effects of traditional systems and welfare. We have seen the loss of pride, the giving up and eventual state of deadening, dependency and hostility. We are still seeing the effects of people being uprooted and alienated as indicated by the current rate of social problems. These are the effects of our traditional ways of meeting basic human needs. And our welfare systems up to now have been no different adequate budgets and simple down to earth. Humane treatment has been largely absent. Obviously for many than welfare systems was merely a prison and not a way out of miserable living conditions. In recent years, there have been small strides made towards correcting some of these evils and the hopes of those held in a state of despair for generations have been aroused. Speaker 1 00:27:01 If cutbacks have made, if there is an attempt to turn back the clock to the days of the old system, the following poem written by a young campus point may be some Bolick of things to come have. The ice caps begun to melt. I thought for a moment that I felt an age of silence, Dawn, the river fish can no longer respond. There is no one in the cooperation dynamos and trains and cities and nations have all shut down. It is time to sleep, time to sleep in the barren cold sleep on in a ceremonial black gown. How during the effort, which falls to our feet, how dare the mountains of pots and pans raised by the meals that we have arrived too late to eat at this time, I would like to thank Mr. John Savara attending offer, sir, with the Detroit board of education and Mr. Speaker 1 00:27:58 Edward Stewart, director of social services at the Franklin settlement for their assistance in locating families for a program on the subject of poverty. As a final reflection on this topic that we have been looking at for the past three weeks, I should like to quote an old American expression, which goes something like this. You get what you pay for. In addition, I would merely like to add that the poor get what they can pay for which isn't very much. And our country gets just about what it pays for in terms of social problems, waste of creativity and shame. Speaker 0 00:28:37 You have just heard Hartford Smith, junior supervisor of the screening and intake units maintained by the Michigan department of social services, delinquency rehabilitation programs. This program was produced by Dave Lewis. Dave Paris was the engineer. This is Wayne State University Radio.